Former L.A. poet laureate on Great Migration, family, grief

“I’m attempting to make the lifeless/ clap and shout.”

So ends the primary part of poet Robin Coste Lewis’ new e-book, “To the Realization of Good Helplessness.” The “lifeless” Lewis refers to aren’t merely her direct forebears, although the e-book is rife with archival images of her kin, however all of our ancestors as human beings, and notably these of members of the African Diaspora. “To the Realization of Good Helplessness” is a hybrid textual content involved with the current previous and excavating what Lewis calls deep time — millennia of Black art-making, community-building and innovation. To perform this excavation, Lewis arranges images she found 25 years in the past in a suitcase at her grandmother’s house in order that they’re in dialog together with her personal layered, lush poetry. The result’s a e-book steeped in a selected historical past — Black migrants from Louisiana residing in Los Angeles within the twentieth century — but buoyed by a sense of boundlessness.

The duvet photograph is one which Lewis is close to sure her grandmother, seamstress and beginner photographer Dorothy Mary Coste Thomas Brooks, took herself. Not like the vast majority of the images inside the e-book, that are portraits, this one is of a busy intersection in downtown L.A., proper in entrance of the outdated Could Firm constructing. It’s the form of photograph that reveals one thing new each time you take a look at it.

Lewis’ debut poetry assortment, “The Voyage of the Sable Venus,” gained the 2015 Nationwide E book Award, and he or she was the poet laureate of the Metropolis of Los Angeles from 2017 to 2020. Born in Compton and raised in Carson, she holds a grasp‘s of theological research diploma in Sanskrit and comparative non secular literature from Harvard Divinity Faculty, an MFA in poetry from New York College and a PhD from USC’s Artistic Writing and Literature Program. She is at the moment Author-in-Residence at USC, which is the place we met to have this dialog.

Angela Flournoy: “Use nostalgia, don’t be nostalgic.”

Robin Coste Lewis: Cecilia Dougherty, the actually unbelievable filmmaker, when she first noticed the archive and knew I used to be going to do a undertaking, stated to me, “Use nostalgia, don’t be nostalgic.” And I feel that’s why it took so lengthy for me to put in writing this e-book. I’ve trashed like 20,000 pages of various tasks, totally different concepts, other ways of getting into it. It wasn’t till this 12 months that I wrote the primary third. And I wrote it as a result of all people was dying. I misplaced 23 mates beneath COVID — not simply from COVID however different issues. I wasn’t positive we had been going to make it; I wasn’t positive I used to be going to make it. So, I used to be like, “Nicely, if that’s the case, is there something you actually need to end?” And it was this e-book.

The primary third is what I wrote beneath COVID. I wrote it for a undertaking I used to be doing with Julie Mehretu, however then after I wrote it for her, I spotted that it was really for this e-book. It was the important thing. I didn’t need to write a “Roots” — not that there’s something unsuitable with that e-book, it’s a canonical textual content, and I revere it. Nevertheless it simply would have been really easy to put in writing concerning the characters and the images, and that wasn’t my undertaking. My undertaking was extra concerning the body that we’ve got been locked in — Black folks, I imply, however actually, all human beings — the body of historical past, the body of time, all of those concepts that we inform ourselves, about ourselves, are too restricted and too quick.

For instance, the entire thought of “4 centuries” [of history] I discover very insulting to use in direction of Black folks. The e-book is extra of an investigation, a corrective of time. The textual content is concerning the evolution of human beings, the evolution of our planet, the historical past of the cell, the historical past of micro organism, as a result of I actually need it to relocate Black Individuals in a vaster historical past as a result of we belong there.

Partly the rationale why I wrote this piece for Julie is I’m obsessive about this collapse South Africa known as the Blombos Cave. They discovered a bit of paintings that’s 70,000 years outdated, that an early human had carved with a bit of stone. However we by no means hear about that piece. We hear concerning the caves of Lascaux. It’s at all times been that different cave artwork all through Europe has been used to situate Europe because the form of birthplace of high quality artwork. It’s solely now within the final decade or two that paleontologists have began discovering artwork shards everywhere in the world, and the oldest they discovered to date is in South Africa. Simply think about if we had grown up understanding that, how we’d take into consideration the artwork world?

That, for me, at the same time as someone who’s an historical language specialist, actually shook me, and made me offended and unhappy but in addition ecstatic. As a result of we all know that we’ve been round for a for much longer time than 4 centuries and that our contributions have been occurring for hundreds and hundreds of years. And so, I wished to have these images stand in live performance with that information — my household, my ancestors, folks within the diaspora, we’ve got a historical past that’s deep time too.

AF: That’s one factor that I used to be struck by studying this. There’s this curiosity within the deep time, and in some methods, it’s each an acknowledgement of our particular person insignificance but in addition our lineage that’s for much longer and vaster than is often acknowledged. After which, subsequent to that, you’ve gotten these small moments — you’ve gotten a photograph of a kid in a yard. Once I take into consideration the worth of archives, it’s precisely that form of mixture. How lengthy did it take you earlier than you realized the worth of not simply protecting these images for your loved ones archive however making one thing for everyone?

RCL: I by no means meant to maintain them. I simply meant to maintain them secure. When I discovered them, I knew that I didn’t know what I used to be taking a look at, although I knew lots of people in these images. I simply knew that I used to be too younger to know what I used to be inheriting.

You realize that factor, as you begin to hit your 30s, you begin to understand, “Oh, I really don’t know a lot about something”? I feel it simply will increase as you grow old. Right here I’m, three graduate levels later, and I undoubtedly know nothing. Human beings are a thriller. I’m a thriller for myself. You’re a thriller to me, my dearest mates. And so, I’d take a look at these images of my relations who I grew up with — who took care of me rising up — and understand, as I acquired older, I knew nothing about them. The explanation why I didn’t write something about them is I felt utterly uncomfortable pretending that they had been able to being recognized, and particularly by me — I knew that was a false, romantic retrospection onto some images of individuals I as soon as cherished.

I knew that if I used to be going to place phrases with them, that they higher be actually good phrases that didn’t enable the viewer to settle into some nostalgic reverie. As a result of these images had been taken throughout a reign of pure terror, and it’s very easy for readers to suppose, “Oh, that’s such a stupendous {photograph}.” And it’s, proper? That’s a stupendous lady in that {photograph}. However make no mistake — these folks had been residing beneath an apartheid regime. And but right here they’re, discovering pleasure in these little snapshot moments.

AF: You talked about the way it felt such as you weren’t fairly prepared to supply these folks up, to presume that since you knew them at this one time period, that you may write a succinct abstract of who they had been. That’s one of many issues that actually fascinates and confounds me about experiencing loss is the best way that, from then on out, everybody who has by no means met that particular person, in your effort to explain them, they’re changing into an abstraction of some sort. I used to be serious about you and Julie working collectively, the place you’ve gotten these stunning, monumental summary works. After which you’ve gotten these images, which in some methods folks would say are concrete — you’ll be able to describe them. I’m to listen to you discuss extra about images and the connection to abstraction, and poetry, which can also be ripe for such stunning abstraction.

RCL: That’s what I’m attempting to play with — it seems to be prefer it’s a nostalgic photograph album, however the textual content is incongruous with the photographs. I’m hoping it offers the reader an expertise of abstraction, as a result of they don’t meet up — not when it comes to nonsense however when it comes to existential thriller. That’s actually arduous to tug off with a medium like images that’s grounded in figuration. I hope the textual content takes that behavior of notion and scrambles it.

Why do you suppose you get to know every thing about all people? And why do we predict that we all know something about Black tradition in any respect, after 4 centuries, and three of these centuries had been spent in full terror? And the final 100 years have been spent in delicate terror? How will you get to know someone if they’re in a state of full terror? I do know who my grandmother was to me. I do know the persona that she gave me. And I do know what an beautiful expertise it was to be cherished by her. Who she was at midnight at evening, who she was when she was afraid — I by no means noticed my grandmother present any concern, ever, about something. And that’s loopy. She was born in 1908 in Louisiana. Are you able to think about all that she noticed? What I do know, for positive, is that I by no means knew her. That’s what I’m attempting to get at — can I assist to readjust this notion that we’re so simply recognized.

AF: Eager about this explicit photograph in downtown L.A. that you just selected for the duvet of your e-book, why are there so many Black folks on the road?

RCL: Lady, I really like this photograph a lot. This photograph is definitely 2 by 3 inches, and it’s taken on eighth and Broadway. That is the nook of a division retailer, Could Firm. Right here I’m doing 25 years of analysis, and what I can inform you is that my grandmother was stitching in downtown L.A. presently; she was working in a stitching manufacturing unit. So it’s nearly for sure that she took this {photograph} as a result of the dates line up. Additionally, my grandmother cherished Could Firm. But additionally, do you see this cake within the window? We had been questioning whether or not she was taking pictures the cake — and [if so], my grandmother had probably the most extraordinary photographic eyes. I take into consideration Vivian Maier, for instance. There are all these girls strolling round with cameras presently, taking images on the streets, however nobody’s taking them significantly. Take a look at the best way this {photograph} rhymes — this man is strolling off-frame to the left, this lady’s strolling off-frame to the correct. It’s simply completely choreographed. It’s like what you had been saying earlier about these moments being captured on this deep time. For me, this {photograph} is a meditation on infinity.

AF: In case you’re from right here, like us, it is a context that folks don’t affiliate with the town, particularly on this time interval. In case you had been to inform me this was on Central, I’d be like, oh, yeah.

RCL: Completely. And it’s downtown. Sidewalks are traditionally charged locations for Black folks and folks of colour everywhere in the world. Throughout colonialism, folks of colour weren’t allowed to stroll on their very own sidewalks in their very own nations in the event that they had been colonized. I’ve been fascinated with sidewalks as a result of the historical past of the sidewalk as a spot of privilege is one thing that we neglect about on a regular basis. So, you’re completely proper, the truth that these Black girls are strolling on the sidewalk — and presently, Black folks may stroll on sidewalks however not too lengthy earlier than that they couldn’t — it’s additionally a website of occupation. They’re occupying the road, which I really like.

AF: You point out, on the finish, about the best way that this e-book can also be meditating on the concept of migration and the creativeness and reinvention of that.

RCL: What I’m attempting to say, and I hope I’m profitable, is that the Nice Migration can also be an allegory for the migration of human beings. It’s the most important migration in human historical past in the USA — which individuals additionally are inclined to form of hear after which don’t marvel, and that simply pisses me off. It’s like, did you hear what I stated? The most important migration of human beings on this nation — and never solely was it a migration however they had been fleeing terror. Any time you say Black persons are doing one thing, the bar drops to the ground, and I would like the bar within the sky. As a result of what they survived, and what they knew, and the way they survived, is extraordinary.

Now I ought to discuss Matthew Henson, as a result of I’m obsessive about Matthew Henson, [and that’s where the title of the book comes from]. I’ve been writing about him for a very long time; the lengthy poem within the center, known as “The Ark,” is about him. Right here you’ve gotten this man who goes to the Arctic at 18 as a cabin boy for Commander Peary. They do 5 or 6 expeditions over 23 years and [Henson is] the one that’s placing the pole into the North Pole. In fact, Matthew Henson, a Black man, doesn’t get credit score for locating the North Pole. However greater than that, studying his memoir — that is the Blackest story ever. You’re on the market in all this white house. There are Indigenous communities all over the place, however folks don’t acknowledge that they’re there, however they show you how to survive. His story simply felt just like the story of each Black diasporic particular person but in addition all diasporic folks — you don’t know the place you’re going, you don’t know in the event you’re going to stay tomorrow, you don’t know if the bottom goes to open up and swallow you — which occurred many occasions, since you’re on ice. You don’t know something, proper? And but there you’re going off into the darkish, which he did each single evening, constructing igloos for the entire crew. That, to me, felt like a extra applicable manner for talking about what Blackness is than every other narrative I’ve ever learn.

I really feel like there’s plenty of poisonous optimism on the earth, and it drives me nuts. It’s like, no, every thing will not be OK. No, we’re not residing our greatest lives. In reality, we’re in the midst of local weather collapse. We’re on the final millennia of our species; we’re going extinct and we’re going to take plenty of different animals with us. White supremacy is at a renewed excessive that’s tragic and silly. But additionally, COVID. I had this title earlier than COVID — and I used to be gonna pull again, I used to be like, “That’s the most miserable title ever” — after which, as soon as COVID hit, I used to be like, that’s the title. I don’t care what anyone says.

I’m hoping this e-book additionally speaks to that as nicely, that we solely have a lot time and we don’t know the way a lot time we’ve got. And it appears to me that the folks in these images by some means had been in a position to love one another and know one another and be collectively. All the images, moreover this one [on the cover], had been representing moments of recess from the fear, the place pleasure was palpable and proper there.

AF: In your e mail you wrote about not sufficiently mourning the dying or celebrating the lives of some coloured our bodies. How may that be finished higher?

RCL: I really feel like we don’t mourn the lives of anyone correctly anymore. I grew up when there have been wakes throughout, and when someone died, the physique stayed within the house for a number of days. The neighborhood poured out in droves and introduced meals and we simply didn’t depart the household alone, who was grieving and in shock. It was thought of an honor whoever acquired requested to clean the physique, whoever was requested to decorate the physique, to do the physique’s hair — these had been all gestures of decoration, adoration. After which folks would simply sit for days speaking. I feel it’s similar to sitting shiva. You simply actually imbibe the loss that you’re experiencing, and also you do it with arms round you, arms out of your neighborhood surrounding you. I used to suppose that the very best factor about my tradition, Louisiana, was the filégumbo, as a result of it takes three days to make — and there’s an entire historical past of colonialism in a pot. However now that I’m getting older, and dying is changing into extra acquainted, I feel the very best reward that I take from my tradition is that I used to be uncovered to dying as a ceremony of passage that was attended by love, and luxury and tenderness and a focus — profound consideration.

We had been taught easy methods to assist folks die from early on. Now, watching how folks die, and the way we enable them to die, I really feel like an alien loads. I’m like, why are we nonetheless transferring? Why didn’t the planet cease spinning? Why didn’t all people simply cease? The factor that’s most exceptional is there are particular our bodies whose mortality is afforded that focus — Queen Elizabeth, for instance. For me, for instance, my grandmother, the seamstress, deserves to be laid in state for a number of days and to have folks come and say goodbye to her similar to anyone else.

AF: Anderson Cooper has a podcast about grief. My good friend despatched me this episode and one factor Elizabeth Alexander stated on there may be that Black Individuals use the phrase “someone handed,” and I actually by no means had considered it that manner. However I’m serious about what number of occasions I’ve felt prefer it was an abrupt factor to say that someone died, and why that feels such as you’re being dealt with roughly when someone says that.

RCL: When my dad died — he was my favourite particular person on the planet — it destroyed me. And I’m happy with that, that’s applicable. However I keep in mind I couldn’t bear to listen to individuals who didn’t know him say his identify. I’d develop enraged — get his identify out your mouth. You by no means met him. You don’t know what it means to have been born in 1923, to be a math genius and need to be a janitor for many years as a way to increase your youngsters, as a result of your mother and father may solely afford to ship one little one to school and never each. We are able to’t even fathom the histories — that’s what this e-book is about. The histories are in these our bodies, and never simply the quick histories; I’m actually within the form of rugged, hearty, extraordinary, indestructible energy of the cell. What our cells have seen and finished, and what you’ve handed on to your daughter, what I handed on to my daughter. What we don’t even know. All of that organic intelligence, innate intelligence in our our bodies. That’s why I’m fascinated about deep time. It’s like we don’t even know what our our bodies know. We don’t know what our our bodies can do.

Angela Flournoy is the writer of the novel “The Turner Home” and a third-generation Angeleno.